Motorcycle Training Forum

[Iain]

Hi all,
When turning left or right at a junction am I right in that a total of 3 observations are made?

For instance when turning left the first observation is made over the right shoulder then a lifesaver over the left,signal then a final lifesaver left again?

Then when turning right first observation over the right shoulder,lifesaver right,signal then final lifesaver right?
Txs!
Iain.

[Rjhmt]

Hi Iain,
Sounds like a lot of lifesavers, be careful of looking around too much!

What we teach, which is adequate is the following and I hope this helps.

Minor to Major T-Junction Right and Left turns

On approach, Mirrors Signal Manouvre MSM then Position Speed Look PSL

2 options are stop and give way.
Lifesaver should only be needed if you have stopped at the junction, and this is then aimed towards the direction you are travelling, however before you set off. For instance turn left lifesaver to the left, and turn right lifesaver aimed towards the right.

Major to Minor Right and Left turns

On approach use the MSM PSL routine!

Left turn, consider a lifesaver for position change, if its a wide road, and consider a left lifesaver before entering the minor road, if you see pedestrians, or possibly a cycle lane!!

On approach use the MSM PSL routine!

Right turn, consider a lifesaver for position change, and most definately a lifesaver to the right before turning on both options of stop and give way!!

The important consideration is to be able to act sensibly on what you see, therefore the timing of any observations should be before you comitt to your manouvre!
Also never say never, if in doubt always have a look

Hope this helps!

[Iain]

Ok,that's a help,thanks.
How many minor faults are you allowed in the test?

[retro]

Hi Iain
I think you are allowed 15 minor faults.

have you read the "getting ready for your test" topic in
the "how to pass your motorcycle test" forum

GO STEADY--------------PAUL

[rjh_786Bn]

Thats correct Paul, 15 minor faults and no serious or dangerous faults,
and you only got 2 minors

[Iain]

Ok so a minor fault is failing to make an observation or lifesaver.What else?

A serious fault would be failing to stop and put a foot down at a stop sign,failing to cancel your indicator,failing a u turn,locking a wheel or changing down during the emergency stop.

A dangerous fault which would result in your test been abandoned would be going through a red light for instance.

Hope I'm right so far...

[rjh_786Bn]

That's the sort of thing! Lifesavers major to minor right turn or turning right at a roundabout would be serious faults, as would lifesavers on moving off and emergency stops.

[smurfy]

ok so this is bugging me - why is putting your foot down on a u turn considered a serious fault but failing to do proper observations is only a minor? I can't see how I can cause any harm to anyone putting my foot down but not looking might just have someone killed.

not that I'm still peeved at myself for having failed twice for the u turns or anything

And as far as minors go - you're only allowed up to 5 in any category before it becomes a serious fault and so a fail - is that right?

Other minor faults would include the ambiguous failing to make progress - your told to ride for yourself then you get penalised for making a particular judgement based on your years of driving experience for the given road conditions but the examiner disagrees (no I really am not that bitter )

Hesitation at junctions is another one that can catch people - that got me when I did my car test. Not responding to road signs catches some people out. I know it seems obvious but I had a friend who failed her driving test so many times for that. You can also pick up minors for things like balance and poor use of the controls - like if your nerves cause you to have a bit of a wobbly moment when pulling away kind of thing. I'm guessing though that like in a car you won't be penalised for stalling specifically but you can fail based on how you deal with that.

To be honest though, if you have a good instructor I think it should be impossible to fail just on minors so I wouldn't worry too much about them.

Actually I'm more peeved about all this rain - practicing in this weather really isn't much fun

[rjh_786Bn]

Hi Fiona,

Putting your foot down on the U-Turn......... Nationally the U-Turn is the biggest contributor for failing the motorcycle test

If you speak with Examiners, you need to demonstrate slow riding within a confined space and at an angle, hence U-Turn.
Some pupils have dabbed the floor, and still passed, however the ruling is that if you put your foot down to support the bike this is considered a control fault and is serious or dangerous whichever the case may be.........

The only way is keep practising and you will get there.....

There is no set amount of minor faults ie: 5 that will automatically go into a serious or dangerous to my knowledge, this is down to the Examiner's discretion.........

Now then Observations, can be serious and dangerous depending on the observation, timing, length, location etc....

Instant fail's would be Major to Minor right turn and Roundabout turning right, moving off, U-Turn and Emergency stop!

Hope this help's and lets see you get through soon....

[smurfy]

see the cynic in me says u turns are only in there so they can fail people and get lots more money but then I'm a very cynical person

the 5 minor faults thing was actually something my driving instructor told me

[rjh_786Bn]

Well Fiona I have to say
I don't disagree with you, money making
Lots of opportunity to demonstrate slow riding on route.......... But I don't make the rules.
That's why I could'nt be an Examiner, cause you know what I would say on the U-Turn ........ Go on have another go, and another and another....